Talk:Libertarian socialism

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Chomsky: "I'm an anarchist, not a libertarian" libertarianism != anarchism

Chomsky has made a clear distinction between anarchism and libertarianism in this interview: http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/noam-chomsky-kind-anarchism-i-believe-and-whats-wrong-libertarians

He's also stated that he is an anarchist, and that he beliefs libertarianism is wrong.

I'm surprised that he is being called a "libertarian socialist" in this Wikipedia article. How come? -- Preceding unsigned comment added by Viridium (talk o contribs) 02:20, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

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External links cleanup

[1] @Eduen, this listing is far beyond excessive. I didn't see a single link worth keeping.  czar 15:39, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I don´t know from what point of view you are thinking all these links are bad. Maybe you can explain this better or point to specific problematic links and why they are problematic. I guess it would be reasonable to take those who are broken or no longer active but you cannot just delete an entire section.--Eduen (talk) 09:07, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

These links are holdouts from early Wikipedia--we don't keep sections of links to primary source treatises, random hobbyist websites, amateur histories. The EL section is for (at most a handful of) links that provide unique resources outside the scope of what we would either use as a source or provide as an encyclopedia. Not to mention that the section has been tagged for cleanup for two years... You want to keep these? How about starting with a single source from the dozens that you feel provides a resource in accordance with the aforementioned & linked External links guidelines? czar 16:36, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the best long term way to handle it, but the external links area of this article contains an immense amount of useful and relevant info and represents a large investment of time and effort in development. IMO it should not be simply deleted. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:54, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

I agree withe North8000; this should definitely not deleted in one go. It should be cleaned and maybe trimmed. I can certainly see links worth keeping among it. BobFromBrockley (talk) 15:34, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Again, does anyone care to name even a few of these links worth keeping? czar 03:51, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

A bit hard to tell when you've removed them all. I'm pasting them here so people can check them and see.

===Libertarian socialist general resources===

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• Le Monde Libertaire Transcription of the first known publication to declare itself 'Libertarian' and socialist, in 1858 edited by Joseph Déjacque.

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• libcom.org the home of Libertarian Communism in Britain

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• • A libertarian Marxist tendency map

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• Libertarian Socialist Alliance - International Global Network of Libertarian Socialist Organizations

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• A People's Libertarian Index

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• Libertarian socialism

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• Collective Action Notes is a libertarian socialist publication whose website hosts an extensive collection of online anti-authoritarian texts. (link dead) Archived version at the Wayback Machine (archive index).

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• Anarchism and the left

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• Infoshop's libertarian Marxism and libertarian socialism portal

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• Left Communism collection on the Marxists Internet Archive

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• The Anarchist Library large online library with texts from anarchist authors

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• For Communism - John Gray WebSite: large online library of libertarian communist texts

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Introductory articles

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• "Libertarian Socialism" by spunk.org

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• "Libertarian socialism: a practical outline" (1959) by Gaston Leval

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• "What is Libertarian Socialism?" by Ulli Diemer

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• "Libertarian Marxism's Relation to Anarchism" by Wayne Price

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• "Libertarian Socialism: A Better Reconciliation Between Self-Ownership and Equality" by Nicholas Vrousalis

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• "Libertarian Socialism" by Tom McLaughlin

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• "The End of Traditional Antisystemic Movements and the Need for a New Type of Antisystemic Movements Today" by Takis Fotopoulos, Democracy & Nature, Vol. 7, no. 3, 2001.

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• "Kropotkin, Self-valorization And The Crisis Of Marxism." by Harry Cleaver. Written for and presented to the Conference on Pyotr Alexeevich Kropotkin organized by the Russian Academy of Science in Moscow, St. Petersburg and Dimitrov on December 8-14, 1992

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• "How a Libertarian Capitalist Became a Libertarian Socialist" by Chris Wilson

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• "Rediscovering our libertarian roots" by Peter Hain

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• "The Crisis of Dialectical Materialism and Libertarian Socialism" by Mario Cutajar

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Libertarian socialist websites

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• The Red Menace Archive of The Red Menace, published by the Libertarian Socialist Collective

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• Workers Solidarity Movement

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• Industrial Workers of the World

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• Professor Roger McCain's libertarian socialist economics page

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• Social Ecology London, English libertarian socialist study/action group

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• TURNUSOL, A Libertarian Socialist Internet Periodical, Turkey

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• Liberty & Solidarity

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• "An Anarchist FAQ Webpage" -An Anarchist FAQ

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• The BBC programme In Our Time presented by Melvyn Bragg has an episode which may be about this subject (if not moving this note to the appropriate talk page earns cookies). You can add it to "External links" by pasting {{In Our Time|Anarchism|p0038x9t}}.

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• Anarchism: A Bibliography

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• Anarchy Archives - information relating to famous anarchists including their writings (see Anarchy Archives).

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• Daily Bleed's Anarchist Encyclopedia -700+ entries, with short biographies, links and dedicated pages

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• KateSharpleyLibrary.net -website of the Kate Sharpley Library, containing many historical documents pertaining to anarchism

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Libertarian socialist history

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• "Socialism from below" by George Woodcock

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• Anarchism and the Russian revolution

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• The Bolshevik Counter-Revolution against the workers and popular soviet/council power was done with party dictatorship and massacre on the Kronstadt soviet in March 1921.

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• Anarchist timeline includes libertarian socialists

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• Anarchist Encyclopedia (from the Daily Bleed) includes libertarian socialists

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Film

- See List of films dealing with Anarchism for a list of nonfiction and fiction films dealing with anarchist movements both historical and contemporary.

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• Noam Chomsky Discussion with Libertarian Socialists, Ireland 2006

BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:49, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

IMO we should put them all back and then delete one or a few at a time giving reasons for doing so. North8000 (talk) 17:49, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@North8000: Unfortunately, we work the other way around. Links should only be included if there is reason to do so. A quick scan through this list shows quite some stuff that is already discussed in this massive article (347 references, >30 item bibliography), and I cannot imagine that they add to the understanding of the subject at hand. I can agree they are useful in themselves, I can agree that they are relevant/related, but those are not inclusion standards for external links, we are not writing a linkfarm. I see the last two here in my edit-window, which both have 'includes libertarian socialists' in their description - first of all is this article not about libertarian socialists, it is about libertarian socialism (we should have a 'list of libertarian socialists', where the link may be of some interest). Secondly, for both cases it suggests that there is (way) more on the linked pages than only libertarian socialists, so an interested reader may have to select what is of relevance to them. Many of the subsections in the external links section almost warrant their own article (where the links can be used as references): 'history of libertarian socialism', 'list of films dealing with libertarian socialism'. Moreover, others are easily suitable as references by slightly rewriting the prose. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 18:39, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@Beetstra: :We are talking about two different things. You are talking about building an article. I'm talking about how one approaches a built article. Specifically on the latter, the approach of "delete everything except items where someone convinces that it should stay. But you make good arguments for the deletion, which moves my opinion to "either way is fine with me" Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:11, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

@North8000: I see where you come from, but your approach has shown not to be too successful as the article was tagged for external link cleanup since Jan 19, 2015. Broken window theory applies. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 05:22, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

@Beetstra: Good thoughts. Please do whatever you think is best. North8000 (talk) 21:04, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

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Unrelated references

Some of references the in the opening seem to just be about anarchism in general.FourLights (talk) 22:44, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Which ones? BobFromBrockley (talk) 10:40, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

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Anarchism

I am not an expert on this subject, but it seems to me that socialist libertarianism cannot be too far removed from anarchism. Should similarities (and possibly differences) between the two go to the top of this article?Vorbee (talk) 19:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

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Discussion that affects this article

There is a discussion / presentation of ideas that affects this article at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Libertarianism Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:28, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

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